You can now buy Khadas VIM4 SBC for $199.90

27 Replies to “You can now buy Khadas VIM4 SBC for $199.90”

1. > AES-256 16KB is slower probably because it is a single-threaded benchmark

   It is single-threaded and with ARMv8 Crypto Extensions licensed openssl’s aes-256-cbc score scales linearly with CPU clockspeed on same type of ARM cores (A72/A73/Neoverse scoring exactly identical): https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench/blob/master/results/ARMv8-Crypto-Extensions.md

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2. Just a reminder wrt CPU performance and new Amlogic SoCs: maybe scores improve over time since board maker gets better boot BLOBs from Amlogic (hopefully less conservative memory timings, at least higher clockspeeds for the CPU cores).

   • ODROID N2(+) started with 1800/1900 MHz in 2018
   • VIM3 started with 2200/1800 MHz in 2019

   Both are now at 2400/2015 MHz and both saw a drop in memset memory performance of approx. 20%-25%.

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   1. any thoughts why higher cpu clock speeds decrease memory filling with constants, while (reduced/)no value checking in blocks to modify (on comparable page size borders (4kB) for block memory systems and unaligned cache sizes) by that amount?
      (reduces bandwidth on system bus (AHB changed bus width 128/256/512b) ?)
      (thx)

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      1. > any thoughts

         Nope. Please remember that we’re talking about BLOBs here. We have no access to the sources of these Amlogic firmware BLOBs that control clockspeeds of ARM cores as well as memory timings. If you look through sbc-bench results focusing on G12B (VIM3 and ODROID-N2[+]) you see variations in memory bandwidth and latency but since we’ve no idea about actual parameters it’s pointless to speculate.

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         1. in general: Do we have numbers for AHB bandwidth on Amlogic devices (>128-1024bit) or ARM in general for A73 (A53) cores clusters?
            (considering new A76’s, G52 or even G610 getting more capable, this A311D2 G52 is <=0.8GHz now, no NPU’s bw by now and cpu’s clock 2.4Ghz/1.9GHz ~25% difference is what memset bw is reduced (?), x86/x64 memory test (old DDR1, ~2000, for comparison https://media-cdn.ubuntu-de.org/wiki/attachments/05/02/memtest_failure.png and comparable DDR3 (i7 870, ~2010) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Memtest86-screenshot.png ) for DDR4 memory shows ~100-x000GB/s for L1 caches, so AHB here should be somewhere between 10-x00GB/s for biggest bus width’s)
            Ever seen “Memtest” on an aarch64 device?

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            1. Check for example Willy’s ramlat utility to get partially a clue about internals. But we need to have in mind that majority of SoCs on popular SBCs are originating from the ‘Android e-waste world’ designed to meet certain criteria often harming performance in certain situations and also often controlled by firmware BLOBs.

               See this memory controller example on RK3399.

            2. They don’t define what’s the preferred use case(s) for this board (AFAIK), that’s maybe to be defined by customers for available OS’s, so benchmarking showing top performance capabilities would be most interesting if hardware competes to other top performance devices. On average usage performance limitations might only slightly or even never influence customers experience, handling all bus bandwidth (and latencies, AFAIK) at one time stable and sufficient (for “today’s” software expectations for SBC).
               Anyway interesting, thx

3. As soon as the ROCK5 Model B is released, this will die a very quick death.

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   1. Why would it?

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      1. ROCK5 Model B will be faster and cheaper with similar features. But software may be the deciding factor here, as Amlogic A311D2 should be pretty stable since it inherits many of the features from A311D, although with enough differences that will make mainline Linux difficult (and I was told nobody is working on upstreaming support).

         Rockchip RK3588 is very complex, and it will take a lot of time before it can be considered stable.

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         1. > Rockchip RK3588 is very complex, and it will take a lot of time before it can be considered stable.

            And this is the big problem with these SBCs.
            By the time it’s stable it will be competing with low end Meteor Lake while the 3588 is at most competitive with Jasper Lake and whatever low end AMD might be offering by then.

            Any theoretical advantage ARM might offer completely outshadowed by being multiple generations behind in both architecture and node.

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            1. > while the 3588 is at most competitive with Jasper Lake

               Talking about A311D2 here?

            2. The 3588 actually. In perf/w, and absolute performance it doesn’t trump current Jasper Lake offerings.

               Though could have said the same about the A311D2.

            3. There are already RK3588 development boards on sale and tested !

               Just search ” RK3588 ” on YouTube. No guess work needed. Just because Radxa use a RK3588 does not make it faster than other RK3588.

            4. Yes, and that performance would have been excellent had they been released in Q1 2020 (when they were first announced)

               Then it’d have competed with Goldmont Plus (Gemini Lake) chips in the same power/price category. And the RK3588 is better than Gemini Lake chips.
               But it’s 2022 now. We have Tremont (Jasper Lake) on a 10nm node and a huge IPC increase. Mini-PCs with an N6005 can be had for $200.

               By the time the RK3588 has some manner of support we’ll have Gracemont (Alder Lake-N), low-end Alder Lake-U and low-end Zen3 in the same price category. And honestly, I think I’m being generous to Rockchip here.

               It’s just not a very attractive chip anymore.

            5. Agreed, these developers either need to get the software out with the boards while they are relevant or else they need to lower the price accordingly if release is delayed. I give some grace to Pine because they are trying to release affordable community supported hardware, the others don’t have as much of an excuse. I see ARM boards as quite relevant in the 50 to 150 USD space, once you get above that then you must compete with Intel and AMD with much higher performance. The exception to this is Apple M1 but I doubt these will ever see an SBC form factor so you’ll be paying $699+ for the privilege once Alyssa gets HW GPU acceleration going on Asahi.

            6. Well, first sbc-bench result for Firefly ITX-3588J just flew in with broken cpufreq (A55s limited to 915MHz, both A76 clusters limited to ~980 MHz, it seems as with RK3568 there’s a firmware running in the background doing some hidden thermal throttling).

               Based on these crippled ‘below 1GHz’ results it’s already obvious that RK3588 is much faster than A311D2.

   2. Agreed. It’s quite pricey. But maybe there’s backer(s) that use their product extensively. Khadas Vim’s has survived in SBC world until now.

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      1. The SBC sales are only parts of the business, they also offer design services.

         Once I had a video call with somebody that used another SBC company offering a cheaper price for a custom design, but they got plenty of issues, and after switching to Khadas they were satisfied. That’s just an anecdote and YMMV.

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4. I wish they would ship the source code for their mcu. I still remember when they claimed it would be user programmable.

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5. The actual market for these SoC might be better understood by looking what Amlogic say for A311D

   “Smart VisionSmart Vision enabled by AI technology is the next wave of the industry. On the basis of high-definition video, AI technology is used to upgrade the smart vision SoC, and data can be directly processed at the device side, which greatly reduces the workload of server processing. By performing image analysis locally, and then extracting the useful information from the video such as face recognition, object tracking, and automatic alarm can be easily realized. Amlogic AI smart vision SoC with intelligent analysis can bring the customer more diversified applications.

   Smart homeThe pursuit for household quality is becoming higher and higher. As part of the Internet of Things, smart home is gradually involved in innumerable homes. People could use remote-control unit or remote APP to get command of various end equipment including lamplight, curtains, air-condition, and security camera etc., via smart home host computer. It offers the optimal living condition experience. Among those devices, the smart speaker, which has artificial intelligence voice control integrated, is becoming the next generation of smart home entrance.

   Digital SignageWith the continuous development of digital signage products and applications, it has penetrated into various industries such as transportation, media, advertising, finance, education, etc. The overall market is growing, and its industrial value has continued to increase. Amlogic SoC combines the high-performance CPU/GPU/NPU and various peripheral interfaces to provide the best-in-class solution in this area.”

   But the A311D2 makes a snappy usable desktop too😀

   RK3588 fans, why you even here, talking A311D2 down? Go enjoy your RK3588.

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6. I am dissapointed on the price. Too expensive for an SBC.

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   1. Same here, $219 is not peanuts..I’ll pass on this board as some of my friends who will also feel the same, they would skip this one as well…Rock5B all the way for me.

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7. Khadas asked me to update some of the specs. There’s no NPU, the RAM frequency is slightly lower, etc…

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8. Any idea whats the idle/normal power consumption for Vim4? Thanks

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9. Yes, but does LGPIO function ok with 40 pin headers?

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10. Well Beelink have a Android TV box based on this SoC, GT-King II.

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